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Author Topic: Regarding units' carrying capacity and fortress capacity in version 4  (Read 42580 times)
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EmPeRoR JuMoNg
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« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2008, 03:30:43 AM »

nahh the rule is still a mess.. even the war income too is gone?
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IndridCold
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« Reply #76 on: September 05, 2008, 17:42:37 PM »

Yep, the rules are active when attacking against goldmines as well *sad*

The thing I find most frustrating about IO in recent months is the lack of clarity from the game admins.

We have statement saying that certain rules will be applied to all V4 realms, but they are not.
You pay for credits for a premium account to get certain features ....and they do not work, but you are not refunded.
The battle servers seem to crash or armies get stuck on a regular basis.

What is the world coming to?

Couldn't agree more... The longer i play IO the less fun it gets... not only for the reason quoted above, but also with those many new features which make the game more realistics, but certainly less fun to play!

For instance... bearing capacity! what good would that do me? We have alot of active players in all realms and dealing with everyone attacking nearby goldmines! So missing the cut is quite possible with that many active players scouring all the lands... so in order to ensure you can sustain a large army you have to attack alot and far away as well! but with this new system you have to bring numerous amounts of soldiers over large distances... in other words if i want to attack over 2500 / 3000 IM i'm spending more on upkeep walking than i can bring in with the attack!
And an attack on a province WITH army in it you definately won't win gold... The only reason to attack army now is military points and war income, which brings me to the next "problem"...

Scrapping the war income from the game is really bothersome... the main reason to go to war WAS the war income in my opinion! Of course there is the military points, but you can more easily get those when NOT at war! When you're at war people are more alert, do army saves and be sure their army is unharmed during that week! So in order to hit someone hard you have to plan carefully and spend alot of time observing the other alliance... as a reward when you win you have the war income! When you're not at war people tend to relax a bit and do less army saves... that way you can attack peoples army more easily but you don't get an added bonus of war income... I see no reason for wars with these new rules!

I think the age of warring is completely undermined by not being able to support large armies anymore (besides creating tons of light soldiers)... even wars are no fun anymore IMO, which makes large armies even more obsolete... so let's welcome the new age of farming *Grin*

I have a question regarding both points btw... IF creating and bringing numerous light soldiers in a large scale attack to bring you lots and lots of honour is pushing your account, what is the new policy regarding this matter? To obtain the millions of gold in a certain province you need lots and lots of light soldiers to bring it back home, BUT if by some odd chance it is being guarded by alot of soldiers you need to bring lots of elites to overpower that army AND alot of light soldiers to bring back the gold!!!
So in other words your honour rises like crazy in big scale attacks, which in turn makes way for an indictment of pushing your account...
To avoid that you can't bring light soldiers in those attacks, which in turn gains you very little gold... and with that removes all reason to attack!

If someone can please explain the above scenarios and can give a more positive spin on it so i can still enjoy the game i would greatly appreciate it *Grin*
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IndridCold
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« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2008, 17:58:58 PM »

that's where the capacity rule is most needed ... you just need to recruit a few extra light units, not much of an annoyance, just a bit of planning
And for once account pushing will really need to be done with a decent army ... no more of those 10k guardians "robbing" 20M+ gold ...  *bravo*

Don't know about you but i've never seen an account having 20 million without a decent army defending it... I for one have seen a max of 2 million in an undefended province! And for goldmines... 500k to a million is as good as it gets!

And besides... only the big players can support and easily create tons of light or heavy soldiers... what about the smaller players? they don't have the resources to create so much or the production to sustain that much army? so for them attacking goldmines (or anyone else for that matter) is made almost impossible! 1 or 2 attack at a time and leave yourself undefended maybe, but that's about it! so the big ones grow bigger and the smaller ones stay small...

Same with the bonus... it costs 2 diamonds to take the 6 hrs bonus production, but 10 diamonds to take the 10 hrs, but you have to be in the top 20 to apply for the 6 hrs! so the top 20 will still take it, but 10 diamonds a day for 10 hrs production is way to big a cost imo, so outside the top 20 not many will take the bonus production! in other words the big ones grow bigger, the smaller stay small all over again!!! if you want to make that a fair system then make the cost the same... both 2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever) diamonds, but 6 hrs for top 20 and 10 hrs for 21 and rest of them... This way you give the people outside the top 20 more ways to gain and make it more dynamic!

Just my opinion though *Grin*
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Starbuck
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« Reply #78 on: September 05, 2008, 18:10:23 PM »

Don't know about you but i've never seen an account having 20 million without a decent army defending it... I for one have seen a max of 2 million in an undefended province! And for goldmines... 500k to a million is as good as it gets!

That's what account pushing is all about ... if you have never seen it, then it can only be because you haven't been around long enough ...

And besides... only the big players can support and easily create tons of light or heavy soldiers... what about the smaller players? they don't have the resources to create so much or the production to sustain that much army? so for them attacking goldmines (or anyone else for that matter) is made almost impossible! 1 or 2 attack at a time and leave yourself undefended maybe, but that's about it! so the big ones grow bigger and the smaller ones stay small...

This is where your kingdom's economy comes in handy ... once your provinces are at full pop and with fort 7 or 8 everywhere, there aren't much left for them to do but churn out soldiers and pay for their upkeep.
As for small and middle-ranked players, they can still make a lot of good harvest with light soldiers on active players and goldmines alike. Military academy is there to help you farm ...
Anyway, leaving your army at home during war is either suicidal or a well-planned trap  *hihi*

Same with the bonus... it costs 2 diamonds to take the 6 hrs bonus production, but 10 diamonds to take the 10 hrs, but you have to be in the top 20 to apply for the 6 hrs! so the top 20 will still take it, but 10 diamonds a day for 10 hrs production is way to big a cost imo, so outside the top 20 not many will take the bonus production! in other words the big ones grow bigger, the smaller stay small all over again!!! if you want to make that a fair system then make the cost the same... both 2 (or 3 or 4 or whatever) diamonds, but 6 hrs for top 20 and 10 hrs for 21 and rest of them... This way you give the people outside the top 20 more ways to gain and make it more dynamic!

Just my opinion though *Grin*


Anybody can have the 6hrs bonus : they just have to write to the admins with nick and realm, and ask them (politely preferably) that they want it activated ...  *rose*
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simshi
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« Reply #79 on: September 05, 2008, 18:22:43 PM »

This is the stupidest idea ever. I send 4000 heavy swordsmen, and you tell me they can only bring back 86000 gold. That is an average of about 22 gold pieces per swordsmen. We are talking about gold coins here, not gold bars. I say I make them a bag pack and they can carry at least 200 gold pieces each.
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Starbuck
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« Reply #80 on: September 05, 2008, 18:39:12 PM »

This is the stupidest idea ever. I send 4000 heavy swordsmen, and you tell me they can only bring back 86000 gold. That is an average of about 22 gold pieces per swordsmen. We are talking about gold coins here, not gold bars. I say I make them a bag pack and they can carry at least 200 gold pieces each.

Inflation is not the issue ... gameplay balance is
The game admins could also multiply all costs by 10 in gold and your 4000 heavy swordsmen could carry back 200 gp each. Would it help you ? no ofc ... yet that would be more "realist"
The fine point is that troops can't carry an infinite amount of gold. The logic is that the heavier, more equipped the soldier is, the less place/energy he will have to carry any plunders back home. How much they can carry "realistically" is just a moot point. IO is not a realistical medieval simulation, but a medievally-inspired wargame who looks at various gameplay options (some realistic, others not) to deepen the sophistication of the whole gaming experience ...

Frankly, weight capacity is a life issue only for those who don't like to adapt or prefer to play in an "easy" environment. For most other players, this is just one more parameter to take into account before sending an army away, at worst an hindrance, npthing more ... just like upkeep, army mix, terrain bonuses, troops strengths/weaknesses and so on ....
« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 18:48:14 PM by Starbuck » Logged

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IndridCold
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« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2008, 20:21:31 PM »

I have been around for quite some time Starbuck and have heard about several ways that qualify for pushing an account, but never saw or better noticed it being done... I play in realm 31 at the moment and can't point a finger at anyone!

I can relate to what you're saying and it's not life threatening or something i can't adapt to... my army is big enough for changes like these, though i can't see any sensible reason why i have to start sending 50k to 100k soldiers to an undefended fortress just to catch alot of gold from a goldmine (in other words... abandoned land)... and it's really bothersome if it's not undefended! There's no way to make a profit on these fortresses anymore... the gains vs losses ratio is not exactly balanced anymore! And my previous made point that this hurt smaller players more than the big ones is still valid imo!

The exemption of the war income is beyond any reason (i can see the sense in bearing capacity if pushing an account is still that frequently done as you say it is... have to take your word on that)! What use or better said what good or fun is a war if there's actually nothing to gain from it?

I think change in a game is a good thing and keeps it dynamic and provides enough stimuli to keep the always lurking "boredom" at bay... but these changes are a bit too radical for my taste and subtract to my gaming experience...

« Last Edit: September 05, 2008, 20:23:12 PM by IndridCold » Logged
reni
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« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2008, 20:23:27 PM »

I have been around for quite some time Starbucks and have heard about several ways that qualify of pushing an account, but never saw or better noticed it being done... I play in realm 31 at the moment and can't point a finger at anyone!

You will!  *pardon*
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IndridCold
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« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2008, 20:27:09 PM »

LOL... and what makes you so sure Reni?
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reni
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« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2008, 21:11:46 PM »

LOL... and what makes you so sure Reni?

Personal experience, friends experience, forum experience...

All in all... experience *wink*
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anzac001
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« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2008, 22:02:05 PM »

I presume the purpose of this is to slow the game down - stop people in long games having military in the the millions and resources in the billions.

You could have achieved the same thing by decreasing the spead the military travel at.

Creating a wagon unit which like the seige weapons requires a certain number of military to push/pull it into battle.  The unit has researchable capacity and can be destroyed when a fortress is brought down would add another dimension.
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Hasanova
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« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2008, 03:12:45 AM »

...
All in all... experience *wink*

1. You brought the 2x Attack range            --> (war)income decreased
2. Rumouring outer 5x forbidden            --> (war)income decreased again
3. You closed the ALL button on Players List      --> (war)income decreased again
4. You closed Vote-Bonus               --> (war)income decreased again
5. At Least you put a carrying limit            --> (war)income decreased again


We see a pressure on moneyless players  *freak* *freak* *freak*

I believe when from now on the paying players won't increase,  the next thing your experience will bring us is: PBL

*Pay By Login   *hahaha* *hahaha* *hahaha* *hahaha*

I don't want to wait for it cuz my experience is oriented on the mathemetical function from the points above.
 
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heroetkiki
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« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2008, 10:07:04 AM »

Create version 5 for those who prefer bearing capacity *hihi*
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smruti
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« Reply #88 on: September 08, 2008, 08:18:26 AM »

1. You brought the 2x Attack range            --> (war)income decreased
2. Rumouring outer 5x forbidden            --> (war)income decreased again
3. You closed the ALL button on Players List      --> (war)income decreased again
4. You closed Vote-Bonus               --> (war)income decreased again
5. At Least you put a carrying limit            --> (war)income decreased again


We see a pressure on moneyless players  *freak* *freak* *freak*

I believe when from now on the paying players won't increase,  the next thing your experience will bring us is: PBL

*Pay By Login   *hahaha* *hahaha* *hahaha* *hahaha*

I don't want to wait for it cuz my experience is oriented on the mathemetical function from the points above.
 

i play well under pressure ...... [:-} [:-}
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That Guy
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« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2008, 19:16:10 PM »

Guys, I really don't see what all the fuss you are making is about... Carrying capacity worked very well in GIO, there was no problem with it whatsoever, people get farmed there all the time - goldmines and active players alike. Does it really seem plausible to you that 1000 swordsmen will carry back 3 million gold? Because this is what's happening in some of the realms, and if you want to bring up iron prices, did you ever consider that this is the reason Iron prices rise so high to begin with?! After all if it were just the farmers' production and army values converted occasionally into gold by raids, the price would be much, much less... I always play mixed strategy, and let me tell you, playing an era with low points and hitting on huge goldmines, only to try and burst out later in the era as warriors, is just as lame as farming an entire era and crashing a huge army in the end.

I don't think it's balanced that a player with very little army can become insanely rich in one attack. I don't think it's balanced that goldmines will endlessly produce resources that can be taken once every month with zero effort, essentially multiplying players' production a hundredfold. I don't think players should be invulnerable in wars by having only level 1 forts and suffer only a small penalty to their production than otherwise. I don't think any of this is balanced at all. These rules fix all of that, and they need to be put in to fix all of that. If you think the offered capacity is too small that is another matter, it can be argued (though at least at first glance it seems satisfactory to me). But stop dissing a new rule just because you're used to exploiting the loopholes of the old rules.

What's wrong, afraid that you would need to actually put some thought into the game instead of simply attack, convert everything to soldiers, attack again?

Mind you, if war income was added back in it would further reduce iron and wood prices to a sane level.

Back when this was written, I'm not sure I fully understood.  Now, having played longer and gained more in game experience, I totally agree.  This rule (carrying capacity) does not make anything easier for anyone and that is the point.  Tired of some farmer sprinting way out ahead of you because he has time to send 30 goldmine attacks a day but only maintains 20k soldiers?  Now he has to develop a real economy at a realistic pace and be targeted by 'average joe' on the way.  Players are suddenly forced to think and plan a little for a change.  That enormous army some players have that they pay upkeep for with just a small amount of iron trading at 16?  This will bring down trading prices so that they have to work for real to pay for it. 

If that means they can't defend constantly during a war because they have to leave and fetch some gold or they get their army trapped at home by negative gold after poor planning and long army saves.... oops.   *hihi*
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