Imperia Online International
February 26, 2020, 11:40:51 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Attacking out of allowed net worth points range  (Read 11388 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« on: January 17, 2012, 22:20:03 PM »

Hi there...

i was recently attacked by a player who got over 2 times more points than me...he got like 3 times stronger army than I do, more provinces, more boxed provinces, more resources...it wouldn´be a problem but...

...the only reason why i just can´t defend myself effectively is that stupid out of range rule that is ruining my honor, morale and strenght of my army every time i try to counter attack him. I really understand that stronger players who attack weak players are punished...it is nonsense compared with a reality but ok, makes the game noob friendly.....so be it. But why the hell is there a punishment for players who just defend themselves from STRONGER players...he got greater army, more provinces, more resources, stronger alliance, greater income and still i´m punished for fighting back....and i don´t want to capitulate because it is not a warrior way...


so I would suggest to punish players with drop of honor and moral points and descreased strenght of attack only when they engage weaker players and leave unpunished players who attack stronger opponents or maybe increase their stats by the same rule - for every 0.1 difference increase stats of player who is attacking a stronger opponent

what do you think?
Logged
tiger
Community Manager
*

Karma: +694/-194
Offline Offline

Posts: 3319


« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2012, 23:00:01 PM »

Dont get offended, but nobody forced you to be weaker player. That means that he is better player and with your suggestion, we would punish stronger or better player a lot.
System is fair as it is. You attack out of your range, you suffer morale and honor penalty. Stronger player also lose attack strenght, while weaker dont lose it when attacking stronger. If we remove penalties for weaker, then he can attack stronger when he like and stronger cant retaliate because he lose honor, morale and strength. Where is fairness or reality in that.
This system with punishments for both sides are well thinked and its made good, so it wont be changed.
Logged


tiger
Croatian Community Manager
Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2012, 23:38:36 PM »

Sorry but I disagree...i´m not a weaker player in this because of my choice, it is called "late start". And more points doesn´t make somebody a good player. And i do not agree with
Quote
If we remove penalties for weaker, then he can attack stronger when he like and stronger cant retaliate because he lose honor, morale and strength
Stronger player has better researches, greater fortress, more defence mechanisms, possibility of better units or he can just outnumber a weaker player. Stronger player doesn´t have to physically attack a weaker player in order to stop his attacks, he can easily protect his own empire and let enemy smash himself on his citywalls...stronger player just have more options in this....my only choices are capitulate or suffer...i cant face his army....because he would crush it...it is 55000 units against 20 000...he got heavy units only, i have a mix....rebuilt my army would take me like 3 weeks, maybe more....but he is able to return in less than 12 hours...

like i said, the only thing that makes me toothless in this conflict is a loss of honor and morale....i´m not begging for a silverbullet...i just want to have a possibility to take advantage of my skills, a chance to proove who is better player...chance to show him that he picked a wrong guy
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 23:39:16 PM by Tasilakosil » Logged
fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 00:49:31 AM »

well if u are really better player,u wont have problem entering his 2x range.another thing is that points progress is linear only for army quantity.But since army size is limited by economy it is not that linear anymore.Having 3 times more points does not mean he is 3 times more stronger,not even close.2 times more points in research mean roughly only 1 or 2 stronger research.If u have 4 provinces and he has 5 provinces,those 5 centralisations bear twice as much NW compared to urs 4 centralisations due to formula1 used for research price increase ,but u are less than 20% weaker,because his 5th province is paid in advance,it needs a lot of time to repay,and it works with less efficiency.Another difference is that pure population is not counted in NW ,that can be his main advantage,and reason why u are expiriencing problems.In fast growth phase,where bigger province produce more villagers ,u wont have much chance.ur chance will come when his big provinces sieze to grow while urs still grow.until then he will have deserved,significant advantage.U cant catch-up over night,and not every player can be caught-up.but if ur really better u will survive him with fleeing,and he cant waste his honor forever.once ur in his 2x,u can fight guerrilla war with him,and prove ur military skills.
Logged

fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 00:57:49 AM »

there is A LOT of convergence involved in player development,but u are refusing to see them.game is suitable for catching-up in progress.i used to reach rank 1 in few months,with large delayed starts,like few weeks.U just need to use ur other advantages when in such position.Use ur weak point range - opponents are really less online,and have a lot of undefended gold.Grind them and u can do good.As long as oponent is NOT 3 times stronger with army so he can attack u with his 70% of army ,while defending base with 30% where his 70 beats ur army at ur turf,and u cant beat his 30 on his,u have options.u just dont know this game well enough OR u are simply not putting enough time into collecting resources from other players - only alternative for weak eco.
Logged

Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 04:01:15 AM »

Well, about farming and speed of grow....i have like 58000 points right now...last week i had maybe 15000....i have stolen several millions units of various resources, i feed my army with gold from sold iron and stone exclusively because my 4 provincies just cant make enough gold with reasonable happiness. That is a reason why i wanted to slow down a bit because you got much more points from building army than building the economy and i am entering level where my opponets are just too strong...the player i was talking about has 9 provinces, great population, millions of stocked resources, i can imagine his production...he got more than 50 000 of heavy units, including 230 balisteas...i have something about 25 000 of mixed light and heavy units....

so, direct contact between his army and my army, full x full is a suicide...there may be a chance like 15% of a victorious battle but only because of his morale...which can help me win a defensive battle once...more than 80% of my army would be destroyed while only about 15-20% max of his will not return...

you are perfectly right about fleeing and avoiding the contact...that is what i am doing with great success, after 4-5 attacks he has stolen only 50000 of stone and destroyed my fortresses...but i cant be online 24/7...it´s just a matter of time when he manage to send an attack i wont be able to avoid and i am done...

and, as you said, it is not a problem to enter his range, but at what cost....building a greater army without sufficient economy is not a good solution..once my gold is under 0, i wont be able to loot resources...with my current army it happend to me few times, the only thing that saved me was 10 hour production for diamonds


and anyway, it is true that one solution is catch-up and fight him later...but usually agressors don´t allow such things and still, doesnt help my case because he is "killing" me right now. I could use my knowledge of strategy, my skills, but this game is punishing me for doing that...and i think it´s wrong...why it should be only about brute force?
Logged
fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2012, 11:00:20 AM »

there is reason why it works both ways .Imagine that u are ranked 1 .U were playing a lot and put a lot of effort.Lets say u have 100k nw.on other hand there are several people with 30k nw points,which is for that time of realm easily reached.So several of those 30k people can be in 1 alliance.1 develop spy ,and others prepare guerrilla forces for hiting side provinces.they attack with no penalties,and u cannot retaliate because u have huge penalties.would that feel allright?
Logged

Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2012, 18:26:22 PM »

It shouldn´t be only about brute force and points....a player with 100 000 points who is unable to defend from players with 30k is just a ONE BIG NOOB...there are fortresses, moats, towers with balistaes, he can deploy large amount of army.....i really wish to see a player with 30k how is destroying level 7 fortress or even higher with all towers and moats, with max balistaes and garrisoned by heavy or even elite archers....NO WAY...in boxed provinces...


and what are the allies for? if you don´t have someone in your alliance, you can try some other player and make a deal...a strong player has always something to offer....gold, protection, help...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 18:27:38 PM by Tasilakosil » Logged
fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2012, 18:49:18 PM »

this is about retaliation fairness.im absolutely sure that i ,with 30k account and ability to spy(only reason i mention ally is because spying is only problem in this scenario) ,i assume u play nomads who have better nw army distribution,and with penalties asymetry that u are proposing ,would demolish 90% of players with 100k nw with guerrilla attacks.This assumes i dont lose moral/honor when attack him,and he loses moral/honor when attacks me.
Logged

fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2012, 18:51:13 PM »

so are u calling 90% of players noobs thats what i ask
Logged

Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 18:59:42 PM »

Wrong...i play imperian....and like i've said, i wish to see you destroy the level 7 fortress or higher in boxed province with max moats and towers and max balisteas in there and let say heavy archers garrisoned....i got 3200 free spaces on level 6 so i guess it will be like 6000 on level 7....what army would you use to kick my ass?


and about those NOOBs, i dont know how many players you did you fight....there are good players too....but among all games i've ever played, more than 60-70% just have no idea about strategy, game options ad so on....and more thank 70% are like 10-14 years old
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 19:07:15 PM by Tasilakosil » Logged
fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 19:05:13 PM »

thats ur bias - u dont hit strongest link in chain ,thats not guerrilla.point is that if he has 9 provinces,he cant defend them all and his every offline u can do damage.what i am saying ,using dirichlets principle ,u know that there must be province with max 11% army force,not more.after first 2 offlines ,he will change tactic and 1)either try to plant u defence-highly detectable if u are good at math,noting and know game mechanics,2)centralise his army leaving u all outer provinces for ravaging
Logged

fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 19:11:40 PM »

i won at least 100- 150 wars in my IO player carrier
Logged

fragmaster
Forum Staff
*

Karma: +450/-107
Offline Offline

Posts: 1479



« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 19:22:16 PM »

what can be mistake - players use false assumption.One of those assumptions is that enemy can spawn army out of thin air,and plant defence.Even if he is online,and moves army around,waiting,trying to plant ,it is almost impossible to time both relocation recall plant AND cover gold drop.In v5 ,it is not possible to cover gold drop from relocation-there are not so many places to hide,gold is in 1 place.and if u learn his gold per minute change its pretty linear from that spot.minutes X gold/minute ,it has to be correct or he is doing something.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 19:23:22 PM by fragmaster » Logged

Tasilakosil
Lieutenant
***

Karma: +1/-3
Offline Offline

Posts: 104


« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 19:34:40 PM »

I guess it's never late to learn something....could you explain in a better way what did you mean by:

Quote
u know that there must be province with max 11% army force
and what do you mean by "offlines"?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.12 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!