Vassals

[numpty]

What do you mean by lowest tax? No tax or very low tax?

yovanna, my vassal population is happy at present, there is a green smiley face and they are 76/108 happiness.  Why can i not annex this province right now?  I have to wait 5 more days or 4 more days if i spend diamonds to be able to annex cause only then will it have 100/108 and be sufficiently happy for me to tax them at a low tax rate and still be happy???

As a vassal, i cannot tax them to be able to annex them at a higher rate than while they are a vassal and still be happy? 

Doesn´t make any sense what i wrote here, nor does it make any sense in the game!!!!

[yovanna]

If your happiness limit in the vassal is 108 so you have to have it maxed i.e. 108. You've set really high tax at first if you have now joust 76. Leave the vassal tax free for a couple of days and make some festivals and you'll be able to annex it.

[numpty]

If your happiness limit in the vassal is 108 so you have to have it maxed i.e. 108. You've set really high tax at first if you have now joust 76. Leave the vassal tax free for a couple of days and make some festivals and you'll be able to annex it.

this i know, the problem is as an annexed province, i will immediately set the tax to low and my people will be happy.  why do i need to have maximum happiness to annex a vassaled province?  doesn´t make any sense at all!

IMO once a vassal is happy and has a green smiley face it should be anexable!

[yovanna]

Sorry... the color and shape of happiness icon has nothing to do with that. It has to do with riots and rebellions.

[vand00s]

about the vassals ....yvonna answering that we cant get rid of them solution is to annex them...but once they are vassals how can i annex them ??i made 1 province vassal to test what it is now im stuck with it for a year i dont want that so what should i do ?

[numpty]

about the vassals ....yvonna answering that we cant get rid of them solution is to annex them...but once they are vassals how can i annex them ??i made 1 province vassal to test what it is now im stuck with it for a year i dont want that so what should i do ?

here is the crux of the dilemma.  vassals can only be annexed once happiness is at 100/100, the people have to be friggin unbelievably happy for you to annex them!  once they are incredibly happy, you can annex them, tax them and for some reason they continue to be friggin unbelievably happy paying taxes that previously they were not paying.

this is the cold hard reality of vassals, while vassals they are smart only be happy at 0 tax, once you annex them they allow you to tax them and maintain their happiness???  IO logic.....

in short your population in annexed provinces are like hamsters with a wheel in a cage, they just keep running in circles and love it!!!!

[nekodrugi]

about the vassals ....yvonna answering that we cant get rid of them solution is to annex them...but once they are vassals how can i annex them ??i made 1 province vassal to test what it is now im stuck with it for a year i dont want that so what should i do ?

You just need to do one more centralization and than click on your vassal, New option would show up (annex) and that province would become annexed.

We are complaining here because vassals are too much spoiled. No tax is only good thing for them. If you ask me i would do couple of pillages to show them what being unhappy is.

Than they would be happy with even medium tax and they would put my monuments all around just to please me. (also send the best girls, gold, etc) 

This is not democracy game, this is bad old times where king decide who lives and who dies.

[numpty]

will find out in 30 mins, next level of centralization will be ready and i will burn more diamonds to test it....

i love the idea of autopillaging my vassals....maybe turn my spearmen on them, kill half of them so they start being 100% happy after i´ve slaughtered the women and children so only the men are ready to die fighting defending the wicked oppressor numpty the d"&k!!!!

btw i have 2 levels of centralization ready shortly and two vassals producing nothing for the last 10 days or so (10 days in IO time is like 15 dog years)....

[tiger]

Well, consider this maximum hapiness as in real life. People are judging how good emperor is. They are at 69 - not so bad, but not good. 80 - he is ok.. 90 - we have good emeror, 100 - he is one of the best, 108 - he is the best, if he wish we would join him imidietly. At the beggining, vasals have little population, you get little from taxes. But you can take low tax on them getting little gold from them and next day with no tax get that back. Or with festival. So you get something from that province while not having centralization to annex them. Later centralization will be expensive, so you will take vasals longer to gain something from them, instead of nothing. While waiting to be able to annex them. And vassls cant be attacked, so thats another +. So vassals ar egenerally not so bad. Its better to have that option then dont have it.  It gives something, maybe not much, but it gives. But you must use them strategicly, not imidietly lvl 5 tax and use maximum hapiness right away.

[numpty]

Well, consider this maximum hapiness as in real life. People are judging how good emperor is. They are at 69 - not so bad, but not good. 80 - he is ok.. 90 - we have good emeror, 100 - he is one of the best, 108 - he is the best, if he wish we would join him imidietly. At the beggining, vasals have little population, you get little from taxes. But you can take low tax on them getting little gold from them and next day with no tax get that back. Or with festival. So you get something from that province while not having centralization to annex them. Later centralization will be expensive, so you will take vasals longer to gain something from them, instead of nothing. While waiting to be able to annex them. And vassls cant be attacked, so thats another +. So vassals ar egenerally not so bad. Its better to have that option then dont have it.  It gives something, maybe not much, but it gives. But you must use them strategicly, not imidietly lvl 5 tax and use maximum hapiness right away.

this theory is flawed only cause after they love me so much as an emperor i will tax them immediately upon annexation and they misteriously maintain happiness that as a vassal they were not interested in demonstrating.  is my kingdom all female?  Are you telling me they love me so much after annexation that as vassals they threw a hissy fit/temper tantrum?
With low tax on a vassal you have let´s say 100 gold/hour.  so what you propose is tax them day 1, then lower taxes day 2, so you are effectively cutting in half their usefulness which is miniscule to begin with.  this would be useful if vassal population was something like 50k in the 1st circle...

vassals are IMO not correctly balanced and it takes way too long to recover to annex in the future if you decide to make decent money from the start....

[nekodrugi]

Well, consider this maximum hapiness as in real life. People are judging how good emperor is. They are at 69 - not so bad, but not good. 80 - he is ok.. 90 - we have good emeror, 100 - he is one of the best, 108 - he is the best, if he wish we would join him imidietly. At the beggining, vasals have little population, you get little from taxes. But you can take low tax on them getting little gold from them and next day with no tax get that back. Or with festival. So you get something from that province while not having centralization to annex them. Later centralization will be expensive, so you will take vasals longer to gain something from them, instead of nothing. While waiting to be able to annex them. And vassls cant be attacked, so thats another +. So vassals ar egenerally not so bad. Its better to have that option then dont have it.  It gives something, maybe not much, but it gives. But you must use them strategicly, not imidietly lvl 5 tax and use maximum hapiness right away.

Well consider this too. In old age peasants were happy when they had bread to eat.

For them good emperor was the one that didn't rape ALL the girls, burn their houses and crops and took everything they have.

This is not democracy game. We are playing medieval game where peasants had no rights. Where they burn people because they were witches and where emperor can kill you just because he feels like killing you.

Medieval means - Crusades, Black Death, slave trade, non existent education and inquisition.

They were happy to be alive. By the way, we had to brake a fort and kill army to vassal them so no emperor can be "the best".

So your logic is not 100% correct in this case.

[tiger]

The goal of vassal is to give something when you cant annex province. Its adition to V4, so something extra is better then nothing. This is strategy game, i just explained how vasal can be used to get something. Who dont wish to use them, thats his decision. I would rather have few k gold then dont have them. You only see that you dont get much from them and wish to change them to get a lot. You cant get as much from vasals as from annexed province. Then everybody will just vasal, because nobody cant attack vassal. 
Maybe vasal logic will change, give more, but thats not up to me. I am just saying how to best use vassals with current logic. Not just change it to fit my needs better.
We want that some concept are realistic, but sometimes we cant. This is just game, not simulator of medieval life. In medieval ages i would just cut your heads for not agreeing with me.

[maeof]

So for short you have to take everything what centralization gives to you and use it well and good, and agree with Tiger, because he isn't joking.

[nekodrugi]

In medieval ages i would just cut your heads for not agreeing with me.

Now you are speaking 

But with all honesty, we don't want more gold. We want better balanced happiness. Give us 10 when not donating and i'm sure we would be happier.

[numpty]

You only see that you dont get much from them and wish to change them to get a lot. You cant get as much from vasals as from annexed province. Then everybody will just vasal, because nobody cant attack vassal. 
Maybe vasal logic will change, give more, but thats not up to me. I am just saying how to best use vassals with current logic. Not just change it to fit my needs better.
We want that some concept are realistic, but sometimes we cant. This is just game, not simulator of medieval life. In medieval ages i would just cut your heads for not agreeing with me.

tiger, i could care less how much gold vassals give.  IMO to compensate almost 3 weeks of recovery of happiness, I would have to have made lots of gold and that isnt possible with 6k population, therefore lower the time it takes to recover happiness or increase population so that my three weeks of waiting were worth it.  mind you, as this is beta, i reaped perhaps a total of 5k from both vassals, big maybe, likely less.  the fact is i am in week 2 of recovering happiness in a vassal and the game will likely last, as you said in another post between 40 weeks and 52 weeks.  That´s somewhere between 5% and 1% of total game play that i will be waiting for my idiot vassals to be happy enough to be taxed and officially become my slaves, destined to die and pay taxes (which doesnt happen in vassals, they are treated too well by admins and programmers).

my beef is not with gold, annexing will reap much more usefulness, the question is vassaling as is doesn´t make any sense IMO and furthermore the time it takes to recover is excessive when playing a 1 year long realm.  if this is never ending, then sure, who cares, but i have been given no indication that realm 82 beta will be neverending like travian or tribal wars, therefore my wait is just too long....

it boils down to 2 options, lower happiness recovery or increase population 5 fold....

mind you 5 x pop growth is arbitrary to demonstrate the kind of impact necessary to justify waiting 20 days to recover from 0 happiness in a vassal....