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Author Topic: WTF??????????????  (Read 2270 times)
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foxdj
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« on: March 08, 2009, 13:29:15 PM »

wtf?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?? whay did memeber from my alliance lose while he was defending, he had a much stronger army?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?Huh?*crazy*

this is the report. *Angry*

http://www17.imperiaonline.org/imperia/game_v4a/_addons/dokladi/?path=bitki/63/2009_3_6/63019940_63019906_191636       head_hurts_kr
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iCeeLuSh
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 14:33:53 PM »

He have brave soldiers battling until 21 morale in field battle .. maybe their general rally well his troops ..  *hahaha*
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foxdj
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2009, 14:35:44 PM »

lol, lol and big LOL...
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tiger
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2009, 14:40:44 PM »

Your friend had way to little cavalry and his swords die from cavalry on flank. thats mistake 1. Second reason is that other guy probably had much higher researches then your friend and at early stages, few lvls higher researches bring big advantage.
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tiger
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2009, 16:25:31 PM »

Well, let me see....
Hopefully a moderator can get involved and clarify my thinking too.  It may help me to learn as I walk through this.  To start us off:

You know the obvious: Your alliance friend lost because of low morale not because of superior fighting strength.  He had a 5-to-1 advantage in swords against his opponent.  The one low point was Lancers: Your friend had an almost 5:1 inferior position. 

Now; Cavalry takes Swordsmen, and Swordsmen takes Archers, and Archers take Spearmen.  Someone will post the numbers.  I do not have a memory for numbers.


That should be the answer to the field battle and the loss to morale. Your friend faced a superior cavalry force 5:1 and destroyed about 66% of it.  Well, at least the take home spoils won't be as good as they might be otherwise with a robust cavalry to load up......  (My troops have just returned with a 200K haul based on cavalry.)

Moderator: I am a noob too.  I would like to know how to create the Cavalry flanking manoeuver seen in foxdj's original post!  Can I do it?  Is it a product of some RESEARCH I should do?  Or is it left to chance and the battle computer without any input from me?   Huh?

The next thing to look at is the damage done to the fortress. Compare the fortress hit points to the damage per round of the invader. I am not a fan of battering rams myself but each battering ram does 2,000 damage per round.  How does the fortress hold up under that kind of damage every round?

And archers in the fortress, apart from killing those below, affect morale.  Again, numbers are not my thing but someone else can comment on them.  As the field battle demonstrates, morale is important.  This time, without the cavalry in support, the advantage would be to the defender if the presence of archers were overwhelming.  (I would have loaded up more archers in the fortress and had none on the battle field.)


Would more archers have saved your friend?  Well, the invader had 87 morale going into the siege and the siege lasted 5 rounds (thanks to the battering rams no doubt).  So the answer is no.

The garrison faced an attacker with 65 morale.....  I would not like to face that high a level of morale in an attacker at that stage.

Without the numbers, my answers are a little vague and general.  But, in general, I think my assessment is right.  When you use the battle calculator, open up the battle breakdowns.  (A noob training film/ppt would be really useful in explaining this by deconstructing a battle, IMHO)  Open up the breakdowns by clicking on

Field battle - Winner:   
Fortress siege - Winner:
Battle against the garrison - Winner:

Your friend relied on a show of strength as a deterent rather being prepared for battle to wear down the enemy morale.  As a result the invader's morale remained high.  On a plus, your friend weakened the invader so you can go pay him a call and bring some horses to haul the gold back home.


Sorry I am 2 hours later on the reply than when I started.  Still, it's worth the post, IMHO. 


ASIDE NOTE (but a good one): By posting the battle as you did, you give everyone in the realm an unfair advantage against the invader.  We can see his name an infer his/her troop strength as well as the gold on hand from the battle.  That is why posting as you did is not allowed.  I understand your reason to have a practical exercise to comprehend the lesson to be learned.  But post battle calculations that keep the players anonymous.

Here is your anonymous battle calculation based upon the numbers in your post:
http://www22.imperiaonline.org/imperia/game_v4a/_addons/dokladi/?path=webcalc/25/2009_03_08/25130786_1655608

Your friend can tell you these numbers exactly but I estimate:
Fortress 3
Fortification 3
Plains
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Starbuck
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2009, 16:30:13 PM »

Moderator: I am a noob too.  I would like to know how to create the Cavalry flanking manoeuver seen in foxdj's original post!  Can I do it?  Is it a product of some RESEARCH I should do?  Or is it left to chance and the battle computer without any input from me?   Huh?

just read the rules and game manual more carefully ...
flanling cavalry is equal to total (spears + swords + cavalry) / 5 .... or if you prefer total (spears + swords) / 4 if you want a balanced army with max flanking power:)
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2009, 17:10:23 PM »

just read the rules and game manual more carefully ...
flanling cavalry is equal to total (spears + swords + cavalry) / 5 .... or if you prefer total (spears + swords) / 4 if you want a balanced army with max flanking power:)
I am still a little blurry on the explanation.

It depends on troops.  Okay.  *ok*  Mine or, reasonably, my opponent's army?

Let's say I have
Spears:   1,000
Archers:     300
Swords:   3,000
Cavalry:     500

And my opponent has
Spears:      1,500
Archers:     1,000
Swords:     1,500
Cavalry:       200

Would you be so kind to put the formula to work for me showing me proofs? 
If you do not like my numbers, feel free to use your own but let us see your calculations please.
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tiger
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2009, 17:52:37 PM »

Flanking is done automaticly. cavalry goes automaticly on flank. But number of flanked cavalry is equal of 20% of your total troops number without archers.
So if you have 1000 spears, 1000 swords and 1000 cavalry - flank= 20% out of 3000 = 600 cavalry on flank. the rest of cavalry fghts normally. Cavalry on flank gets +50% bonus on attack. thats why cavalry on flank is strong.
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tiger
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2009, 18:02:13 PM »

they get +50% for all the duration of the battle phase .... cavalry not on flanks get a charging bonus that lasts 1 round only and whose bonus is weaker (and depends on the cavalry type *wink*)
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Deus populusque
alhatal
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« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2009, 18:22:20 PM »

Ok you want mathematical forumla

here you are:

 *freak*



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fragmaster
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« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2009, 20:51:40 PM »

k+  *hahaha*
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Console_Cowboy
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2009, 21:28:36 PM »

Flanking is done automaticly. cavalry goes automaticly on flank. But number of flanked cavalry is equal of 20% of your total troops number without archers.
So if you have 1000 spears, 1000 swords and 1000 cavalry - flank= 20% out of 3000 = 600 cavalry on flank. the rest of cavalry fghts normally. Cavalry on flank gets +50% bonus on attack. thats why cavalry on flank is strong.
So it depends on my troop numbers and not on my enemy.  *ok*
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tiger
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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2009, 21:47:14 PM »

Ok you want mathematical forumla

here you are:

 *freak*




Sory but this dont give exact flank number. it only gives aproximate value. Because you put wrong value into integrals. it must be from -2 to 1. *Smiley* Ah, you math amateurs. *Smiley* But nice formula and simplest for calculating flank size i ever saw.  *hahaha*
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tiger
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alhatal
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« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2009, 22:23:10 PM »

Yup, my mistake sorry...
next time i will count it twice

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fragmaster
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2009, 22:56:07 PM »

yea amateurs ,u need pi multiply  in interval if u want integer as result
integrating odd function in symetrical interval gives zero,and if u know to divide with zero u areeee : CHUCK NORRIS
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 23:00:31 PM by fragmaster » Logged

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