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Author Topic: Mechanics of the battle  (Read 51694 times)
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reni
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« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2009, 09:07:16 AM »

More I think about it, more it confuses me to be honest.

I was thinking to make an application (calculator maybe) where I'd insert my army units,
it would sum them and then start dividing them by natural numbers starting from 1,
iterations would continue until the result was below 100 so in the end getting the increment
(which would be soldier's quantity) and group numbers.

But what does it give me... There are too many aspects that are still either concealed or so random
that you can't use that calculations to favor you in battle.

First of all, everything we calculate here is only for first round, nobody knows a hell what will happen
in second round. Ofc it would be nice to predict first round and try to have for example more groups/units
call em however you want, so they fight with less groups of enemy army, but if you think again its automatically
determined by your army quantity. And its natural, that attacker will attack when he has more army than the defender.
Nobody would send his/her army on suicide.

But if you look from the other side its void that a single soldier can change the whole layout and calculations of groups.
But still the questions are - What does it give us? How can we rule them for our favor?

Even if we precisely calculate our army group densities and our opponent's army group densities its still decided by
battle engine and from what I've read its still decided based on random principal. Of course that is why simulating the same battles
always give out different results of lost armies etc. But what in the end? Even if you spend night calculating everything precisely,
you either calculate for first round or if you're wise enough to also add their attack values, military research values etc etc..
you create application like old calc "kreposticalculator"...

Still you don't know how it will help you. Since even precise calculations won't give you definite answer. Groups/units are still taken by random.
We already have embedded calc into game, which does this job. Yes it conceals group numbers but what would it change for me.
I see the result in the end.

I thought about three things in conclusion.

1) This topic is created to stop retarded questions which look like "Why do I get different stats when I simulate same battle all over again?"
2) This topic is created just to explain how IO's battle "engine" works so users don't bug moderators/administrators/other stuff members
to explain it to them, but the hidden info revealed here doesn't improve anyone's effectiveness in battle.
3) I'm so noob, that I miss the main point and can't understand how that knowledge and calculations can help me be more effective in offence and defence.

Any explanation or definition would be very appreciated.

Well, we know what happens in second round, in third and so on... Also suicide attacks are not rare at this game...  *pardon*

But you are right anyway, because the main point should be to stop the infinite posts about different results in questions section, or bugs section.

This topic is not so useful in real "era", but it was very important in Nomad Invasions, where you had a whole day to prepare your defence, knowing in advance enemy formation.
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Flanger
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« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2009, 09:31:11 AM »

Yea for Nomad's Invasion this is great info *Smiley*
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disf2
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« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2009, 14:46:43 PM »

Could somebody explain how does happen (occur) battle between two fighting units?
(Sorry for bad English) *pardon*
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« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2009, 06:48:59 AM »

it`s explained in the 1st post. add to that bonuses and moral part from manual
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 06:52:59 AM by k_mihai » Logged

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« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2009, 08:51:41 AM »

it`s explained in the 1st post. add to that bonuses and moral part from manual
I don't see where it's explained! Am I blind or mad?  *crazy*
Could you please copy-past it? I vow that I readed 1st post three or four times (esp. end of post) and did not find it out.  *xxx*
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« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2009, 17:49:22 PM »

you looked for the manual as i said? *Grin*
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disf2
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« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2009, 20:02:36 PM »

you looked for the manual as i said? *Grin*
Do you talk about this one: http://www29.imperiaonline.org/imperia/game_v4a/IOhelp/index.php?page=military ?
I had read it all, two times (esp. bonuses and moral part), but I saw nothing there about fighting between two fighting uhits!
Maybe I'm completely blind? *xxx*

add
In that manual even is no word about fighting units.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 20:05:06 PM by disf2 » Logged

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k_mihai
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« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2009, 20:42:38 PM »

OMG  so, army is divided in companies of the same type of units (1st post of this topic), who interact randomly (same), meaning they fight with each other depending on chance (not as individuals). then  manual here http://forum.imperiaonline.org/int/index.php?topic=26.0 lets say x archers face x spears, but archers have 4x dmg bonus on spears, archers win.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 20:44:14 PM by k_mihai » Logged

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« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2009, 21:37:09 PM »

OMG  so, army is divided in companies of the same type of units (1st post of this topic), who interact randomly (same), meaning they fight with each other depending on chance (not as individuals). then  manual here http://forum.imperiaonline.org/int/index.php?topic=26.0 lets say x archers face x spears, but archers have 4x dmg bonus on spears, archers win.

This manual is same with the one link of which I showed.
My question is not "how army is divided by fighting units?" but it's "how does two fighting units fight?".
Is English not your native language? Or you are extremely dump so you don't understand what I'm asking about? *crazy* Anyway thank you for support. Karma +1. *hmm*
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 21:41:01 PM by disf2 » Logged

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« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2009, 20:28:02 PM »

dude are you naturally stupid? read the manual. fight is based on bonuses, x dmg is -x armor, what exactly is so difficult to understand?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 20:30:28 PM by k_mihai » Logged

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« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2009, 21:21:15 PM »

every units have X hitpoints, Y armor value and inflicts Z damages
to make it simple :

unit 1 will inflict damages on unit 2 equal to its damage value (all technological and terrain bonuses included) multiplied by its bonuses/maluses against that type of troop, minus unit 2 armor value (all technological and terrain bonuses included)  .... this net damage value will then be multiplied by unit 1 size (also called company size) ... the overall damage will then be divided by unit 2 basic soldier hit point to determine how many died.

because each melee and ranged attack rounds are in simultaneous, unit 2 will inflict damages on unit 1 pretty much the same way at the same time.


to make it more precise, re-read this post from the beginning (and the manual too), then look more closely to the detailed version of your battle report/battle simulations *Smiley*


Have fun,
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« Reply #71 on: July 14, 2009, 00:09:37 AM »

every units have X hitpoints, Y armor value and inflicts Z damages
to make it simple :

unit 1 will inflict damages on unit 2 equal to its damage value (all technological and terrain bonuses included) multiplied by its bonuses/maluses against that type of troop, minus unit 2 armor value (all technological and terrain bonuses included)  .... this net damage value will then be multiplied by unit 1 size (also called company size) ... the overall damage will then be divided by unit 2 basic soldier hit point to determine how many died.

because each melee and ranged attack rounds are in simultaneous, unit 2 will inflict damages on unit 1 pretty much the same way at the same time.


to make it more precise, re-read this post from the beginning (and the manual too), then look more closely to the detailed version of your battle report/battle simulations *Smiley*


Have fun,

well im a bit confused now.Substracting armor after all bonus multiplication?That would make armor very effective for cavalry when facing swordsman and archers ,and useless against spearmans? I was always thinking that substraction is made first ,in that case advanced research against advanced research just nullify .Can someone confirm starbucks post?

and what is armor terrain bonus? defender bonus is bonus damage ,particular unit bonus is damage bonus/reduction.Which terrain factor influence armor?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 00:12:29 AM by fragmaster » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: July 14, 2009, 02:35:38 AM »

I did a copy/paste about the "armor terrain bonuses" ... my bad if it confused you *Smiley*
don't look too deep into it, it was meant to "make it simple" : armor bonuses includes your kingdom's research and alliance's research (I haven't talked of any multiplication there)

the "bonuses" we know exist but can't calculate in details are the ones applied to the "nemesis" unit of each troops :

spearmen for cavalry (x4)
archers for spears (x4)
swordsmen for archers and spears (x2)
cavalry for archers and swordsmen (x2)

and let's not forget the charge and flanking bonuses for the cavalry *wink*


have fun,
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 02:36:37 AM by Starbuck » Logged

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« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2009, 07:49:27 AM »

every units have X hitpoints, Y armor value and inflicts Z damages
to make it simple :

unit 1 will inflict damages on unit 2 equal to its damage value (all technological and terrain bonuses included) multiplied by its bonuses/maluses against that type of troop, minus unit 2 armor value (all technological and terrain bonuses included)  .... this net damage value will then be multiplied by unit 1 size (also called company size) ... the overall damage will then be divided by unit 2 basic soldier hit point to determine how many died.

because each melee and ranged attack rounds are in simultaneous, unit 2 will inflict damages on unit 1 pretty much the same way at the same time.


to make it more precise, re-read this post from the beginning (and the manual too), then look more closely to the detailed version of your battle report/battle simulations *Smiley*


Have fun,
Thank you. I'm glad to see competent man there. *Smiley*
But then I've some amplifying questions.
If inflicted damage is less than one soldier's hitpoints, then nobody dies and unit remains fully healthy?
How does work unit type bonuses? Multiplies damage (x4, x2)?

k_mihai
Your behavior is looking as you're stupid churl. And you even decreased my karma! Ooh!  *hmm*
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 08:00:55 AM by disf2 » Logged

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« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2009, 08:00:53 AM »

lol, you can`t read a manual, or a post, flamed others and then cry about it *Grin* put 50 soldiers to fight with 50 soldiers same type, no bonuses to see what happens

@ Starbuck and fragmaster, armor reduces the attack before the bonuses of terrain etc.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 11:04:38 AM by k_mihai » Logged

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