Layering bonuses?

[Sieghelm]

Hey guys, just wondering if information on the attack bonuses are floating around? I'm trying to find out mainly to understand just how safe my fortress is, and other such things.

To make things clear, here's an example with the general outline of what I'm getting at.

1 archer are garrisoned inside a fortress based in the mountains, which is attacked by 1 spearmen (yeah, it's impossible, but I don't want to add any extra numbers to a math problem.). The spearman's empire has 5 levels of armor research, while the archer's empire has 5 levels of ranged attack research. The spearman is obviously doomed, but how much so? The archer has many bonuses on his side even without the wall, this is a easy victory.

To list the numbers for the archer's attack:
10 (base attack)
+5 Ranged Attack
x4 Fortress Bonus
x4 versus spearman bonus
+20% defender bonus
+20% archer bonus
-5 for spearman's armor.

With all these modifiers, what would the archer's damage to the spearman be? And if anyone knows, could you post the math for it?

[higrm]

That seems straight forward:

(10 + 5) * 4 * 4 * 1.2 =
15 * 4 * 4 * 12. =
60 * 4 * 1.2 =
240 * 1.2 = 288 damage done to 1 spearmen. 

I.e. that spearman is dead, since a spearman has 100 hitpoints.  I thought that if two spearmen attacked, only one would die in the first round, but the battle calculator tells me the both die. I guess, the arrow actually pierces the first spearman and goes on through him and kills the second spearman too.  Nice shot.  There are some significant rounding effects seen in the battle calculator.  When 1,000,000 spearmen attack 100,000 archers with zero stats, i.e. range attack = 0 and armor = 0, in the first round of action of the fortress siege of a plains fortress, 200,000 of the spearmen die.  This means each archer killed two spearmen, who normally have 100 hit points, so each archer delivers 200 damage. Now, if there is a 4x bonus for fighting against spearmen, and another 4x for fighting from within a castle, that would mean the base damage of the archers is 12.5, since 200 / 4 / 4 is 12.5. 

If I raise the range attack to 1, which it would have to be as a minimum for us to have archers, each archer is delivering 13.25 base damage, and my 100k archers are killing 210k spearmen.

Raising range attack to 10, gives the archers a base attack of 25!  My 100,000 archers are now killing 400,000 of the spearmen in the first round.  This sort of makes since, since range attack 10, should be 10*10 % more effective than range attack 0.  It is just that the base damage seems higher than it should be.  Or the spearmen are weaker than they should be.  hmmmmm. 

If we say that the archer attack base is 10, then we can figure the spearmen's defense is lower when his armor is 0.  If that were so, then the hit points of a spearman with armor 0 would have to be 80 instead of 100.  Since we kill 2 spearmen per archer and they do 10 base damage, times 4 for fighting against spearmen, times another 4 for fighting from a fortress.  Let's see if that makes sense at higher levels of range attack.  At range attack 1, the archer will do 11 * 4* 4 or 176 damage against spearmen.  So my 100,000 archers should kill 220,000, and that is exactly what the battle calculator says, 220,000 die in the first round. hmmmm

So the hitpoints of a spearman are not 100, but only 80. 

Now, what if a swordsman attacks.  He does have an advantage of 2x from archers, but there is still the 4x bonus for the archers in the fortress. So archers in a fortress have a 4x divide 2x against swordsmen, when fighting from a fortress.

Well now, according to the battle calculator, my 100k archers are only able to kill 10,000 swordsmen in the first round, (actually fewer, but I think that is a rounding issue, since 1million archers kill 99,990 swordsmen).  Those 100k archers with range attack 0 should be able to do 10 * 4 / 2 damage each, so 2 million damage the first round.  1 swordsman has 200 hitpoints, so the calculator gives us the expected result of 10k swords dead from my 100k archers.

The defender bonus, I believe, only reduces the attack of the attacker, or raises the defense of the defender. It does not increase the defender's attack.

Probably more than anyone ever wanted to know on the subject from someone who doesn't really know the inner workings of the calculations.


Cheers,
Higrm

[Starbuck]

To list the numbers for the archer's attack:
10 (base attack)
+5 Ranged Attack
x4 Fortress Bonus
x4 versus spearman bonus
+20% defender bonus
+20% archer bonus
-5 for spearman's armor.

you should substract the spearman armor from the archers base attack value (10+5), rather than at then end ...

If we say that the archer attack base is 10, then we can figure the spearmen's defense is lower when his armor is 0.  If that were so, then the hit points of a spearman with armor 0 would have to be 80 instead of 100.  Since we kill 2 spearmen per archer and they do 10 base damage, times 4 for fighting against spearmen, times another 4 for fighting from a fortress.  Let's see if that makes sense at higher levels of range attack.  At range attack 1, the archer will do 11 * 4* 4 or 176 damage against spearmen.  So my 100,000 archers should kill 220,000, and that is exactly what the battle calculator says, 220,000 die in the first round. hmmmm

So the hitpoints of a spearman are not 100, but only 80. 

A unit's armor value decrease the attack value of the attacker by the corresponding amount ... it doesn't increase a unit's hit points, those stay the same