Imperia Online International

REALM 3
im the leader of an ally...we were winning this war full of pillages,then winning a defensive battle reaching +700...
until 30 minutes ago when one unknow enter in the ally,make attack himself from an opponent member....result
the unknow is gone in vacation exiting from the ally(i didn't see in,it has been a fast action)..we are loosing of 800 point,i mean,is this legal?

unfortunately, it is... is dishonorable, but is allowed

lock ur alliance to avoid that

and about the coordinated attack?

Luckaly is not the same in v4 realms...

only if they were multi or babysitters can be banned

in v4 realms, people can babysit 24 h out of 24, is worse

 :rant:
Wrong, fixed battles are not allowed either.... this is pushing...
this action has an effect on:
the aliance ranking
the strenght of the players individual (lose of warincome)
the honour score
the military points.

So certainly a reason for a bann (or more)
 :rant:

i agree, but admins allow that

Well, laught at me if you will, but your saying the 6 hours offline does not apply to v4? I know that in manuals it's written that it doesn't, but since everybody was asking why they were locked for 10 hours and the login procedure was saying that it's so, I figured the manuals were wrong! (playing R38).

What's the truth???

Adms, as I said before: UPDATE THE MANUALS, OR AT LEAST THE NEWS!!!

 *crazy* I was afraid so *crazy*

in r25 it doesn't apply and that was the 1st v4 realm.

I think you are playing a different game....
This guy was NOT admitted in the alliance, he postulated. He was putting his forces as to maximalise the attack from his "enemy" (read: friend) and afterwards disappeared immediately from the alliance and into vacation mode. Please explain me why this action is legal, when I read the following on the intro page:

Fair play

Players who are trying to manipulate the rules and/or use loopholes in them can be deleted from the game. Before taking a decision each case will be looked at separately by the Imperia Online team.

Playing fairly and Honestly

Imperia Online upholds high standards of moral behavior. Any player who has been caught manipulating bugs in the game or has been cheating in any other way will be deleted from the game immediately. Using vulgar words towards other players can also lead to deletion.

And this on the Cheaters page:

All punishments are for one/several of the following reasons:
-multiaccounting
-account pushing
-friend loans
-honor pushing
-fixed battles
-extreme violation of public chat rules
-extreme violation of game rules
-extreme violation of forum rules

Can you please explain me how this action was "legal"? The hopping in and out of the alliance is a loophole (so, there is an interpretation factor), however this IS A FIXED BATTLE!!! No argument possible about that. Period.
Both players should be banned from the game and the war points must disappear from the record! :rant:
 

That just great!!! Why the f... am I logging off than for 6 hours every day??? ADMs???

yes, i know all that. he entered on ur unlocked alliance and crushed his army or was killed.
but admins allow that. is called trojan horse tactics, seek it on the forum if you don't believe me

well, it was your fault too that you didn't lock the alliance *pardon*

Radooo: in v4, alliances are not opened, nobody can join if not invited.

I stlll need to know: do I have to logg off for six hours or not???

so, how it was possible? *freak*

is from february i think in r25. tested there. the problem is that it can be abused with ease.

No, I do not agree, here a quote from Hiske/Krum on the FAQ about cheating:
3: pushing accounts
I think this is the most discussed reason for a ban. To be very clear; it’s not allowed to do organized battles to push your own account! It’s possible to push your account to gain a lot of honor, gold or military points; and none of this is allowed! Set-up battles to gain something are not allowed! There are set-up battles that are allowed; like army-saves and friendly pillages; because the attacker doesn’t gain a lot from it. One more time; it’s not allowed to do a set-up attack with a friend to gain gold and/or honor and/or military points!!!

It is not the hopping in and out the alliance that is cheating (even though it certainly is the use of a loophole), but the fixing of the following battle!!!! There WAS a considerable gain in points/military points/war points. So it IS cheating.

1) realm 3 is NOT a v4 *freak*

2) in v4 there is NOT 6 hours rule (I play in r25 ad I get breaks way shorter than 6 hours *freak* )

I don't want to abuse anything if possible, I just want to know what is OK and what's not!!!
So, you're saying we have no 6 hours log off in R38? That's strange! I've read some posts, complaining about beeing locked for not following that rule...

I didn't say it wasn't cheating...all I say that entering in an alliance isn't a loophole *pardon*...you could lock the alliance to avoid that *hihi*

You don't need to lock it in v4...

how could he enter an alliance if it is in v4? *crazy* *crazy*

yes, but when r25 began, it was with 6h rule, or at least, we thought so. after 1 month or smth, it was removed and probably not all people knew



well, i agree that is pushing, but, still, admins allow it. u can't do more than to lock the alliance to prevent that from happening


neh, i wasn't implying that. i was saying that, even if in v4 trojan horse tactics doesn't work, v4 system is more open to abuses due to the absence of 6h rule


radooo, there are 2 paralel talks here. one about a trojan horse in r3, other related to v4 vs old rankings

in addition to what k_mihai just said reffering to this sentence:

r25 (and others) have still the old version of alliance, even being v4 realms. so in r25 you still need to block the alliance to avoid such tricks.

Well, he just can't!!! If he did, all of the rules are f... up!!!

In R38 nobody can join any alliance if not invited!!!

nope.

read my post just above yours.

Sorry I've not been here long... but I say what I see...


raito: just tell me this: do I have to be logged off for 6 hours in R38 or not?

I can't find that rule, to be sure, anywhere...

check the dates of when v4 alliance have been developed and implemented for the first time ;) (opening of realm 38 if I remember right)

The above...?

I'm offline for six hours every day, but the rules for v4 says you don't need to be, but still, questions about this are provided. And since the rules are not as they are set to be, what are the rules??? I'm not asking for my self, I'm asking for all new players that should join. They will be as confused as me, when I joind...

radooo, there are 2 paralel talks here. one about a trojan horse in r3, other related to v4 vs old rankings
[/quote]

Indeed, 2 different topixs in one...

I am interested in the trojan tactics;
Is this a trojan tactic... he wasn't even allowed in, they just used a loophole, a mistake in the programming: cheating :rant: :rant:
I agree this cheating could been avoited by locking the aliance... but it is done.

 *sos* Has there been before a battle deleted because of pushing? if so... this should and will be the next one.
and while busy, bann these players so their empires can be burned to the ground :evil3: :evil3: :evil3:

yes, that's true, but the tactic was allowed

they didn't use a loophole...if I don't put the army on retreat and my army is beaten in a field battle is a loophole? It's a mistake *pardon*

http://www4.imperiaonline.org/forums/int/index.php?topic=3445.0

According to those rules, I know. But those rules do NOT apply!!! in every aspect!!! how are we supposed to know which part is saying the truth and which is not???

...  *pardon* yes, a mistake... in the programming... and they used it...
How can it be that an applicant can be responsable for the lose of points / a war.
If you accepted a trojan in your alliance you made a mistake... correct.
you made the mistake of not screening him enough .. or the mistake just to trust anyone :hmmm:

then what would be the use of locking the alliance?? *crazy*

anyway,if i have understood everything...about the war i can't do nothing,but they will be banned soon cause they fixed a battle...

they won't be banned, cause admins don't consider that tactics as cheating, unless they were multi or babysitting. and lock ur alliance

can you link an official discussion where those rules are contradicted?

no comment my friends

1) no capital letters please, we can read perfectly

2) I already told you, if you don't trust me, please link me official discussions saying that I'm wrong. otherwise I don't see any reason in arguing.

You got a point there...  *ok*
...maybe just to let people know they don't need to bodder  *hihi*

well, there is a confusion. as far as i knew, there were no war income for v4 realms, but i think in r5, which is v4 now, there is war income

We already know. As long as there is no IP match they don't ban anybody. So, even the troian horse attacks need to be from different IP-s, and you will be ok.

I'm wondering, why the regulation is so long then  *freak* *hahaha*

I don't know the exact situation of realm 5, but as long as there is the old version of alliance, there still is war income. As for realm 25.

Quoting the rules when loging in to R38:
.
.
.
Every player must have 6 consecutive hours of offline time on every 24 hours. If a player violates this rule, the automatic system will lock his/hers account for 10 hours.
.
.
.

If it doesn't apply to R38, why is that written there?   *xxx*

And, again quoting:
.
.
.
University reduction:
Decreases time for research by 0.45*
Decreases price for research by 0.02*

Architecture reduction:
Decreases time for constructing a building by 0.30*
Decreases time for constructing a building by 0.02*

Military Architecture reduction:
Decreases time for constructing a fortress by 0.30*
.
.
.
Units bearing capacity
Light
Spearman              30   
Archer                   35   
Swordsman            25   
Light Horseman       60   

Heavy     
Heavy Spearman             25   
Heavy Archer                 30   
Heavy Swordsman           20   
Heavy Horseman             50   

Elite     
Phalanx                  15   
Elite Archer             25   
Guardian                 15   
Paladin                   40
.
.
.

This rules do not apply to R38. If they do, and I'm mistaking, than the problem is with the game it self. The rules written in the game are saying different things than the rules in realms descriptions.

Well, about units bearing capacity, CaXo said it will be implemented soon, but it's not written in the news and it shouldn't be written in description of realm versions, until it's implemented.

the rules before the login are equal for all the realms and are not been updated since a while. in realm 38 there is not offline rule.

the reductions applies in every realm (with the specific differences between one relm version and the other, you may find these in the news I've linked before)

It is known that the units bearing capacity has not yet been implemented. When it will be implemented you will find the news in the appropiate section.

OK, thanks... sorry for me screaming yesterday, I had erased my massage instantly, but obviusly you saw it.  *pardon* :-[

OK, sorry to repeat myself, but all the people telling us we should have locked the alliance are missing the point. this was a FIXED battle. It does not matter if it was in or out the war / alliance / whatsoever. The Trojan horse tactic is explicitely forbidden by the cheating rules on the home page as well as in the FAQ's. A "Trojan horse tactic" is clearly a fixed battle in order to gain a benefit, so it is forbidden. Period. And not difficult to prove either.
This IS cheating. And if the mods tell us it is not, they either have Alzheimer and are illiterate (as they do not know nor can read what they have written in the past) or are completely incompetent. Or perhaps they are subject to (Bulgarian nationalism) pressure. A rant? No a logical deduction.....

technically probably you are right... a trojan is a fixed battle and thus against the rules... but it's not punished because everyone can do something to prevent this to happen... the thing is, though, that friendly pillages (for example) are also fixed battles and is much more accepted as a tactics although this is something that you can't prevent! you can make sure no one enters your alliance as a trojan; but you can't do anything in a war if the enemy alliance gets all their provinces friendly pillaged during a war... sometimes those pillages could have been very profitable in war; maybe even more profitable than a trojan!

let's forget about the Trojan thing for a moment (you could even consider it a tactical thing). Let's focus on the circumstances of the battle:

Rule: Fixed battles are considered cheating and are a reason for being banned
Question: is this a fixed battle or not? :

I have a boxed province with a level 7 fortress in the mountains with forests where I always keep my army.
I then move my entire army, except my trebuchets to my weakest province where I have a level 6 fortress in the plains. I move as much paladins as possible inside the fortress and leave my elite archers outside in the rain, and oh miracle ... half an hour later that weak province is attacked and my army is smashed to pieces. The attacker gets an incredible amount of military points, a boost in honour, a nice pack of resources and -oh yes- his alliance suddenly wins the war and so he can pass by the cashier again for his war income.

THAT IS NOT CHEATING NOR PUNISHABLE (like a moderator answered me in PM)???????

Then please explain to me: what is considered a fixed battle? Attacking myself?

thanks Frankster your explanation is very clear
I'm agree 100 % with you.
the problem are the admin they didn't listen us because this is an old problem that they don't want to solve it.

ok, meanwhile the culprits got banned for 48 hours because ... they had also been babysitting each other's account, and that -according to the moderator- made it a fixed battle. :head_hurts_kr:

how else do you think you can prove it's a fixed battle?

if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's very, very, very likely that it's a duck. :hmmm:

Come on woman (I stand corrected  *pardon*): read the complete story of what and how and read the FAQ on cheating *pardon*

I agree, that has to be a duck!  *hahaha* anybody has a rifle? Dinner is just flying by...  *freak*

first of all; I'm a woman and second; I wrote that FAQ on cheating :) so I do know what I'm talking about :)

Hiske, a question:

If I attack the same player continuosly (not my friend or anything like that) (and I'm not doing it yet), to get my military points higher, is that OK, or would that be called as pushing my account?  :hmmm:

pushing account means fixed battle *pardon*

 *hahaha* sorry hiske for franksters mistake,... maybe sometimes you talk like a man.... *hihi*
... send him the link for your picture... *hihi*

All my thanks to Krum, justice has been done... *bravo* *bravo* *bravo*

And only that? OK. thanks radooo... You know I had some strange posts, but it's just becouse I want to learn as muchs as I can and as soon as I can (and as I said in a post before, where you were showing me  *crazy* face, in R38 you can't join an alliance without invitation - there is just no join button!).

Nope... In IO there is a new meaning for that. It is called IP match. If that don't exist then you are "clean". At least this is the official answer i get every time.

To all: Mates, you are repeating a long long debate. I have been in both parts and in both parts IO is wrong.

Part 1: They don't punish cheaters without IP match. They don't even bother to analyze anything.
Part 2: They refuse to remove rules for "pushing accounts" and limit their self on IP match. They like to have the rule there.

The only reason in the world i find for this incoherence is: They want the rule there, because there are cases when they will have to use that. This is translated: They will apply the rule when they want.  *freak*

sometimes they banned people for fixed battles without having the IP match *pardon*

well, if it were for me, i would consider Trojan horse cheating, for all the reasons stated above. but, since admins disagree, is no cheating. i think in the beginning, some people were punished for that, but not anymore. besides IP match, there are other ways to see if an attack was sent by the same computer.

but, is true, almost the only rule breaking that is punished here are outside wars fixed battles, like money transfers or pushes of mil ranks and honour, but only when they see that there is a coincidence like IP match. sometimes, hacked accounts are punished also. fixed wars and babysitting usually are not punished, even if they are forbidden. there were cases on the old forum, even when the offender confessed, but nothing happened.

 *bear*
that's ok my friends...we can say the concept of honour has been respected,i don't know if the reason of the ban here is if she/they was/were babysitting/fixing battles(from when she was making that then?),i can see one is banned and one in vacation , what a coincidence  :zzz:
however thanks to all those who understand the circumstances,not being my ally in the allysranking top 3 race(7),but who knows,playing only throught honourable actions,making this game having a sense with fun-
  *bear*

*stop* then what would be the use of the accept in the ally option?

Properly. I hate this. Sometimes means that they ban the people want to ban and not the others. The case i denounced 5 days ago was pretty clear. I'm curious to see what was the case you was speaking Radooo... Do you have any old link?... or battle report... anything that can help to understand the case... Thx!

Every player that enters your alliance must be accepted (in old versions of alliances) *rose*


As far as I know they banned people for pushing honor and I don't think they had an IP coincidence *hihi*

Yes they need to be "accepted", but they can enter and do their fixed (ok, ok, "unfixed") battle even without being accepted. maybe they can just fix that part of the alliance system so we wouldn't have this problem. if the player needed to be accepted before his battles count for the alliance, then problem would be over.

close your alliance...what's so hard? Can't you press a button? *xxx*

It's easy but this is not the problem.
for the manual this is a fixed battle and the fixed battle are prohibited
the problem is that at someone is permitted use trick and a someone else not.
it's a game and we want to have the same chance.

I heard they were banned...or one of them...anyway with that message I answered to allanon's message *hihi*