Religion ....

[fragmaster]

complex beings like humans must be created somehow.u still belive in life creation by lighting storm from bionic mass ? why dont u take pile of SiO2 and charge it with some lighting and maybe functional computer will appear!And ok ,u got lucky and logic circuit appeared.Why shoud one logic circuit go and seek another logic circuit....i think that its more possible that creator exist then to some enormus serie of accident low possibility events like life selfcreation.Our inability to sense creator doesnt mean it doesnt exist.Take for example termits nest(hive,i dont know what is correct term).Do they know u are watching them from above when u do it??So bilko dont tell that belivers are stupid ,maybe u never really put a finger on ur forehead.Limiting urself to ur crappy 5 senses.Im not great beliver ,but i always give FULL respect to all belivers,even if they just inherited religion.

I belive in analogy in nature ,and if humans make copmuters and robots ,and equip them with sensors(not full subset of ours!),provide them with formal logic proving some strange built-in need to make something that is like us (humanoids) ,is it imposible that we are someone elses product ?Do we make robots that can make other robots?yes we do .Humans make other humans.hmmm.When someone asks u simple question: is robot made by more superior entity or is it product of random electroshocking of silicium?would u laugh at him?Or even better.U make humanoid ,dont learn him how to detect humans ,and drop some toaster and frigde and TV near him .And he says .OMG i evolved from simpler machines!Ofc he will think exactly as u built him .

maybe i sound like some kind of cyber fanatic ,but here's another analogy .Body - lifeforce ,hardware- software.life force coded in our DNA is point that we havent figured out yet .if we do it ,we will maybe discover our creator.Like in matrix movie.Mashines became self-aware ,they were able to understand what they really are ,not just to "run" their programs and serve their purpose,they managed to influence their own software.if we connect our dots ,our creator may be revealed ,and we can find out our purpose .maybe we are just working tool for someone else.revolt possible in that case??Are u afraid to find out our deepest secrets?so many similarity in human behavior,same logic architecture ,all the same.emotions?just a bunch of chemicals ,PROVED .maybe we dont know how lucky we are in our ignorance.truth is not always pleasant ! thnx for reading 

who is stupid now

[KwalB]

i believe in god but NOT organized religion. as someone said, most of them just take your money away and then you see the pastor or what not driving around in a mercedez. if you do believe in god, just believe in god and my opinion is dont follow any particular religion but if you dont believe in god then there is no problem with me. there is no difference between atheists and believers one just believes in something and the other one dsnt

[morph1001]

a lot of things have been said and opinions were pointed out here, bottom line in this discussion is RESPECT. yes its true that some religion or their leaders exploiting the faith of their followers for personal or organizations gain. nobody is perfect, i did not reply to this thread because i want to defend the catholic church, what agitated me was calling somebody with faith stupid. if someone do not believe in a supreme being, that's fine with me, i dont go around and call them stupid. but somebody here is so smart crossed that line. if that is the way smart people think, then i prefer to be stupid. at least i have respect for other human being's beliefs.

[iCeeLuSh]

i believe in god but NOT organized religion. as someone said, most of them just take your money away and then you see the pastor or what not driving around in a mercedez. if you do believe in god, just believe in god and my opinion is dont follow any particular religion but if you dont believe in god then there is no problem with me. there is no difference between atheists and believers one just believes in something and the other one dsnt

I agree w/ you mate .. i really agree w/ you .. You got me there .. 

[Polymeron]

complex beings like humans must be created somehow.u still belive in life creation by lighting storm from bionic mass ? why dont u take pile of SiO2 and charge it with some lighting and maybe functional computer will appear!And ok ,u got lucky and logic circuit appeared.Why shoud one logic circuit go and seek another logic circuit....i think that its more possible that creator exist then to some enormus serie of accident low possibility events like life selfcreation.Our inability to sense creator doesnt mean it doesnt exist.Take for example termits nest(hive,i dont know what is correct term).Do they know u are watching them from above when u do it??So bilko dont tell that belivers are stupid ,maybe u never really put a finger on ur forehead.Limiting urself to ur crappy 5 senses.Im not great beliver ,but i always give FULL respect to all belivers,even if they just inherited religion.

I belive in analogy in nature ,and if humans make copmuters and robots ,and equip them with sensors(not full subset of ours!),provide them with formal logic proving some strange built-in need to make something that is like us (humanoids) ,is it imposible that we are someone elses product ?Do we make robots that can make other robots?yes we do .Humans make other humans.hmmm.When someone asks u simple question: is robot made by more superior entity or is it product of random electroshocking of silicium?would u laugh at him?Or even better.U make humanoid ,dont learn him how to detect humans ,and drop some toaster and frigde and TV near him .And he says .OMG i evolved from simpler machines!Ofc he will think exactly as u built him .

maybe i sound like some kind of cyber fanatic ,but here's another analogy .Body - lifeforce ,hardware- software.life force coded in our DNA is point that we havent figured out yet .if we do it ,we will maybe discover our creator.Like in matrix movie.Mashines became self-aware ,they were able to understand what they really are ,not just to "run" their programs and serve their purpose,they managed to influence their own software.if we connect our dots ,our creator may be revealed ,and we can find out our purpose .maybe we are just working tool for someone else.revolt possible in that case??Are u afraid to find out our deepest secrets?so many similarity in human behavior,same logic architecture ,all the same.emotions?just a bunch of chemicals ,PROVED .maybe we dont know how lucky we are in our ignorance.truth is not always pleasant ! thnx for reading 

who is stupid now

I'm afraid I must disagree with you. Your argument is not stupid, but it is overly simplistic and has two pitfalls: It ignores things we already know, and confuses evolution by natural selection with abiogenesis - two very different things. I will explain:

Science tells us that, without a doubt, evolution by natural selection does happen. It's been observed in laboratory conditions, it has a multitude of supporting evidence in nature (ring species are my favorite, but you can look at some transitional fossils and redundant systems like the cheek nerve (especially in giraffes) or the panda thumb, they're also good examples. I'd be happy to elaborate on any of these if asked to. And we can trace human evolution very efficiently, through Homo Habilis, Homo Erectus, and Australopithecus, with even some extinct side branches like the Homo Neanderthalis. But even if we did not, systems that have been thought to be "irreducably complex", such as the human eye or the bacterial flagellum, have been demonstrated to be anything but.

These things mean that, given enough time and the right conditions, humans could (and did) evolve from even the simplest of living cells. And that's all the theory of evolution by natural selection presumes to tell us - where those first simple cells came from is out of the scope of the theory of evolution. But your main point, that the complexity of humans necessitates a creator, is therefore challenged, because we can actually show a progression, from simple to more complex. To use an analogy similar to your own, if I gave you the blueprints to a Boeing 747, you would know that they were not given to mankind by divine inspiration. There was a succession of simpler planes preceding it and a process of learning, adjusting, and designing of new models. Evolution works differently, but it is also a process of increasing complexity, and does not necessitate God for creating complex life. As fr the origin of life itself, you can argue about that, but complexity has nothing to do with it. So an argument that our complexity is evidence of a creator is wrong, even if superficially intuitive.

Hope I've been clear 

[fragmaster]

when humans look at their own arsenal of creation ,starting with spears and wheels ,then more and more complex stuff ,always keeping good and reliable ideas,and using that good ideas for next invention ,while discarding ideas that are not good and efficient,does it look SAME as life evolution timeline??Maybe creator is influencing all mutations of genes which produces every next specie.just say if im speaking impossible stuff.It seems very logical to me.

[Polymeron]

That's just it - when you have a natural process which discards "bad ideas" (less fit genes) and keeps "good ideas" (more fit genes), you don't need outside intervention as an explanation - it happens on its own. Sure, you can explain everything that we already have an explanation for by "God did it" or "a wizard did it", but it remains a redundant and non-parsimonious explanation - and therefore unconvincing.

[fragmaster]

i must admit it is a bit redundant .who made creator then 

[KwalB]

the creator is all that has been or ever will be. or so i heard

in that case the creator is in ourselves and not in something supernatural

[Polymeron]

i must admit it is a bit redundant .who made creator then 

Ah, that would be the million dollar question, wouldn't it?

[iCeeLuSh]

GEeeeesss my topic is really an interesting topic .. Its my 1st time to have a hot topic like this but my opinion on all of you''ve said even though human evolve or the life comes from a meteor or something .. My question is who creates everything ?? The other stars the whole wide universe ?? It is still the creator .. The GOD ..

[Polymeron]

But you have a problem there - where did God come from? Now you'll say, God is eternal. But why does it make more sense to believe that God is eternal, always has been and always will be - and not that the universe is eternal and always has been? The only reason is, the second seems counter-intuitive for us because we expect the universe to behave predictably and understandably, so encountering something which we don't know (origin of the universe, or origin of life), it's easier for us to pin the reason on something else which we cannot comprehend and which doesn't comply with nature's laws if it doesn't want to. Easier, yes - but still not a better explanation.

Bottom line is - an eternal God does not make a more compelling argument than an eternal universe. So, just because science doesn't have a definitive answer, does not lend belief's answer any merit.

[morph1001]

mystery makes it interesting... just like oxygen, invisible to the naked eye but its there and makes us live. in the name of human beliefs (religion) or the lack of it, sacrificed millions of life since the existence of human kind and its still debatable at this very moment. we really could not explain everything not even the brightest of minds, but its human nature to hold on to something or nothing. this thread started with the simple question of a holiday (holy week/easter) which blown out of proportion due to lack of respect to other human being. a very smart and very opinionated person called us stupid.

[Polymeron]

But should you really dwell on this, or should you move on? I think there is consensus here that respect is due, to people as they are people 

[morph1001]

But should you really dwell on this, or should you move on? I think there is consensus here that respect is due, to people as they are people 

I absolutely agree.